A Roundtable Discussion on Workforce Development

As South Carolina’s economy expands, finding qualified employees to fill the positions of new and varied industries becomes more and more critical.

How can stakeholders ensure that workforce development is given the care and attention that will keep the Palmetto State in the forefront of the country’s economy?

Integrated Media Publishing hosted a roundtable discussion over Zoom with three leaders in the world of workforce development on March 17, 2026. 

Here are excerpts from that conversation, edited for brevity and clarity.

The participants were:

Mandy Elmore, vice president of academic affairs and workforce development at Tri-County Technical College

Debbie Jones, Pee Dee regional workforce adviser for South Carolina Department of Employment and Workforce

Paul Frommelt, vice president of marketing and communications for Integer Technologies 

Integrated Media Publishing Editor David Dykes moderated the discussion.

Q. Thank you all for participating, and thanks to Tri-County Tech for sponsoring. We've all read about how healthy South Carolina's economy is, both in terms of economic development and job growth. But, with that health comes some questions. Dr. Elmore, I'll start with you, with approximately 80,000 jobs available in South Carolina, what are the most critical, hard-to-fill positions now?

Mandy Elmore: Health care, specifically nurses, right? And we all want nurses, because I want somebody to be there to take care of me, and all of you, and my family, right? And then in manufacturing, technicians and operators, right? Also increasing IT skills, data skills are needed in every role and within those pieces. So those are some of the most pressing issues.

Q. Debbie, your thoughts?

Debbie Jones: Well, here at DEW, we have an LMI team that looks into that kind of information. And so they're currently preparing to publish a supply gap analysis that explains which industries need the most workers statewide. For now, we know that health care and human services jobs like registered nurses are always in critical need.

Q. Paul?

Paul Frommelt: We look at it a little differently just in terms of the industry that Integer works out of ... the defense industry. So it's these highly specialized STEM roles that we're looking at. Our portfolio spans robotic and unmanned systems, power and energy systems; advanced manufacturing is in there as well. So, the roles that we're really looking for are those really highly specialized STEM roles and sometimes those also require security clearances. So for us, it's those software engineers, machine learning, AI developers, naval architects. All of those are definitely in demand for us.

Q. Paul, let me follow up with this question. You know, South Carolina's high school graduation rate does not rank among the tops in the state. So what specific retention strategies would you recommend to reduce high turnover rates in sectors like manufacturing, healthcare, or logistics?

Frommelt: A thing that we focus on at Integer to improve the retention rate, and the attraction of employees as well, they go hand in hand, trying to attract employees to the company and trying to retain employees that are already here ... and that starts with the benefits. Obviously, being a great place to work means you're taking care of the employees. If they're being taken care of, they're more engaged with the company, and they're less likely to leave. And that also goes back to … engaged employees recommend other employees to join the company, because they're happy. So we really focus on who we have in our workforce and making sure they have meaningful work and they're happy with what they do, and they're happy with the company, especially as we grow.

We want to make sure we stay true to those values. In terms of hiring employees or helping employees move through the ranks from high school to college, it's really taking a personal stance in the community. Making sure we're partnering with, say, a robotics team at a local high school, or making sure we're heavily involved with USC. So, staying engaged with the university. And then, you know, with these highly specialized roles, it's making sure that these really bright kids understand who Integer is and they think of us when they look to move into the workforce.

Q. Mandy, what are you finding in terms of Tri-County Tech's drawing students, retaining students, and having them work on things like soft skills, being able to communicate, showing up for work on time? Is that an issue still?

Elmore: That is a thing we see. We focus on three very specific workplace skills that really can be expanded out to all those things. It's "communicate effectively, connect intentionally, and think critically." Think critically can be about your situation. We want people to be able to communicate appropriately for their audience in context. If I am talking to the plant manager or the North American vice president as a technician, right, that sounds different than when I'm talking to my other technicians and operators. But the other thing is, retention's kind of a front-end thing, both for colleges and for companies. And so we have to help people connect soft skills and technical skills directly to what they want to do and how they can grow in that and advance. Or how they can just be their best selves where they are.

Q. Do you think South Carolina is faring well against states like Georgia and North Carolina?

Elmore: I think we are because we have one of the strongest community college systems in the country. And because we are intentional, we are focused on our workforce partners ... or transfer institutions. So if Paul needs four-year degrees, that's the beauty of our system. We support technical and transfer, so we're helping support the entire workforce.

Q. Thank you. Debbie, what is DEW finding these days, and what has improved over the last few years, and what challenges remain in terms of retention strategies to reduce high turnover?

Jones: Well, I think that's where our S.C. Work Centers come into play. They have trained business consultants available to help businesses and employees and job seekers find and keep a career that they enjoy. And so they offer resources that help people find affordable and available child care, housing solutions, and access to transportation in our rural areas. We also have the Coordinating Council on Workforce Development, who also supports workforce through the collaboration with agency heads, business leaders, education, educators, and government representatives. The United States Plan was written as a collective strategy to align the state's education with workforce initiatives, helping build a strong foundation by enabling better training and skills for the next generation of workforce leaders. So, stronger education and support of South Carolina's workers will strengthen and lessen the turnover rates.

Q. And Debbie, let me follow up with, there's been a lot written and talked about in terms of rural versus urban economic development in South Carolina. What can we do to improve the labor force participation rates in our specific counties?

Jones: DEW has actually commissioned a labor force participation task force roughly three years ago to examine participation rates in our state and determined a major driver of the labor force participation rate being stagnant was due to our aging population. Thankfully, new data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows an increase in the number of people working or looking for work, and the latest total is close to a record-high number of labor force participants.

Q. Mandy, I'm sure that your enrollment is up, and what are you finding about the students who are thinking about going into various fields? Is the labor force participation rate in the rural areas showing some strength?

Elmore: One of the strategies we've used as an institution is identifying very specific communities. ... Lots of times they're known as United Way's disamenity zones. But these are communities where the educational attainment rate is low, and typically workforce participation is low. Over the long haul, we're engaging with that community over and over, over multiple years to build trust that helps us break into communities and encourage participation in education and in the workforce. By making it accessible, building trust, and also directly connecting it to a better standard of living for the people in those communities. It takes time, but it's a worthwhile game.

Q. Paul, labor, obviously an issue, as you've mentioned. What about throughout the state of South Carolina? Do you draw from one particular area? Do you just look at the state as a whole?

Frommelt: We look at the state as a whole. We're looking for talent anywhere we can get it. And, you know, to have that participation, you need that strong, visible academic pipeline. So, you know, I touched on it briefly, but we're really focused on exposing these students to high-tech careers early, showing them that these jobs, these types of jobs exist right here in Columbia, and that incentivizes their participation. I mentioned we have a co-location with USC, and so, what we're trying to show is to demonstrate that there's these lucrative, stable careers locally without having to leave the state, which we think is important. Just showing these kids that they can stay in their community and have these great jobs right here locally.

Q. And from conversations I have with CEOs or company presidents, they continue to talk about the three pillars of barriers: the transportation, child care, and housing issues that prevent South Carolinians from accepting jobs. In some parts of the region, families are paying more for child care than they do for their mortgage. What can be done as a community to address those three pillars of barriers?

Elmore: Those are big things. None of us can do that work alone. It is public-private partnerships that are going to address that. An example of one we're doing is with the School District of Pickens County. We are offering short-term programs in their community for the jobs that are most at need in that county, and that way we reduce the transportation barrier issues, right? Also, they can work locally, but then the school district communicates directly to the people that need those opportunities the most, and they also then connect the people that want to pursue those educations with resources in the local community to help address transportation and child care.

Q. So, Debbie, your thoughts?

Jones: I agree with Mandy, and it does involve both public and private partners working together, and that's why it's important on behalf of our agency for South Carolina Works partners and Coordinating Council for Workforce Development partners to work together to share that data, combine resources to help the workforce. There's a reason our agency, the state housing authority, Social Services, and so many other state bodies that provide crucial services are partners in these organizations to ensure we're working together to provide well-rounded resources. We can also encourage employers to create these programs. You know, here in Florence County, PDRTA actually works with some of our industry partners and provides routes. So they take workers to places like Otis, to the industrial parks. Harbor Freight has a special public transportation bus that brings Harbor Freight employees to Harbor Freight. So, you know, getting creative about solutions like that.

Q. Paul, I want to address this to you. A lot of companies tell me that child care is important, but they don't feel a need to go into the child care business. What can companies do to offer child care for employees, and should that be a specific goal of individual companies and corporations?

Frommelt: It's definitely something that you have to consider in terms of the larger benefits package to include some kind of child care subsidy or something like that for employees. I think how we look at it and how we're trying to handle it is offering that wage premium. For example, the average worker here at Integer is paid above the state average, and we hope that kind of offsets some of the workforce, rising housing and child care. But one of the things that we're looking at, and this obviously started here, with Covid, but continues for companies that are focused on this is offering hybrid schedules. So that means that employees, if they need to, can work from home. It gives them more flexibility with child care, gives them more flexibility with rising transportation costs, and just offering that flexibility for employees I think is important. And going to the transportation as well ... Integer is right there right next to the major hubs of the university, and it hopefully allows for more transit opportunities and more ways to get into the office when they do come in.

But I think there's … no one silver bullet to help with these pillars, but I think that flexible companies, employees appreciate that, and that helps kind of offset those challenges.

Q. How can local businesses better partner with nonprofits to support second-chance hires? Those individuals who may have previous convictions, are we making progress on that, or is it still a challenge? There are a lot of naysayers out there who think that's not the best approach. I'll throw it open to each of you.

Jones: I can start. We actually have a Second Chance program at DEW, and we work with the Department of Corrections to help prepare individuals, even while still incarcerated, for the workforce. So, including soft skills training, employer training workshops, and mock interviews. We encourage any job seeker who's a returning citizen to reach out to the local S.C. Work Centers to participate in the program and get hands-on support in helping find work.

Q. Mandy?

Elmore: It's companies identifying themselves as those that can hire, and intentionally connecting so that we can provide the education. Well, if that's in prison or immediately after to help them get a job that offers a life-sustaining wage, a family-sustaining wage. Because if we don't improve those opportunities, the recidivism rate is not the best. So we have to get people on a pathway that's productive, because I don't think most people choose to be caught in a cycle like that.

Q. Paul, do you consider second-chance hiring in your employment practices?

Frommelt: There's two sides to this, and Mandy kind of hit on the first side. Just given the defense contracting and security clearances involved, we are a little limited in second-chance hiring for certain classified roles. It's just the nature of what we do. But on the other hand, it's the corpo-social responsibility that Integer feels for South Carolina where we're in the community, so we care about the entire community. So what we can do is offer sponsoring certain organizations, helping certain organizations to help with second chance hiring, offer our skilled subject matter experts to give talks to encourage those that are looking to get into different industries and give them more guidance. Stuff like that, mentoring. So, we're focused on the secondhand. Obviously, when we can, that is something that we look at. We're just a little limited in our field.

Q. Mandy... let me start with you on this. Improving the alignment between career and technical education curricula and local high schools and the actual skills needed by South Carolina employers. We touched on that a little bit, but I'd like for you to talk more about improving that alignment, especially as we look at technical skills that are needed, the increasing demand for those.

Elmore: So one of the ways to do that is for our K-12 partners and our technical colleges to work together to do those things right and prepare those students well. We are very connected. I mean, it is in the mission, and why we were created was to support our local workforces. So one of the ways we do that is by offering technical career pathways. So, very specific skills, and it gives students while they're still in high school an on-ramp to their local technical college, earn dual enrollment classes, and at Tri-County, we're able to offer those at no cost to the student. So we're able to cover the tuition, the books, whatever online packages they have to have. But a way to do that is to connect intentionally through our technical college systems for K-12. It's our responsibility to be attuned to our local workforces and to take ownership of that. So like, dual enrollment programs in non-university transfer and very technical programs are a great opportunity to leg up students in that way.

Q. And Debbie, I know DEW has been very involved in helping organize some apprenticeship programs. Michelin North America, for example, has had an apprenticeship program for many years where students, after they go through the program, will work for Michelin. Are you seeing that growing by leaps and bounds?

Jones: Yes, but I think, the main thing we need to do is keep business and industry at the table. That's kind of where our role as a regional workforce adviser comes in to make those connections. And then, like our CTE centers have advisory groups, we need people like Paul being part of those advisory groups. And we understand that business and industry is asked to participate on every board and in everything, but come in and visit the CTE center, see what they have, see what they're offering, see what they're lacking. You know, can you help fill some of those gaps? Even equipment, maybe they need equipment that students can train on, and then they can go directly into your business or industry. Here in Florence 1, we have a great public-private partnership that has just started between McLeod Health and Florence School District 1. It's the Poynor School of Healthcare Innovation. So McLeod employees are actually teaching, they're the instructors for our high school students. So our students are learning firsthand what McLeod is doing in-house, and then they can go directly to work for McLeod afterwards, but they also provide internship opportunities, apprenticeship opportunities.

We need our business and industries to participate. Let students come visit their sites. Let our educators come and visit the sites, see how what they're teaching in the classroom is used in the real world. The more we expose our students, the better, that they know they have more choices, more experiences, and then building those relationships with the CTE directors. Those are the ones giving and teaching those certificates. And then our CTE centers are also limited sometimes for capacity. There's a struggle to find instructors for some of these high-priority certificate areas, and then there's also a struggle for space. A lot of times they don't have space to implement some of these courses either. So I think the biggest takeaway would be just for a business and industry to get out there, be visible, be seen, get out as much as you can, mentor, judge all these opportunities, take advantage of them.

Q. You have specific requirements in the work you do. Is there anything that anyone can do with the curricula in local high schools to help prepare for a career in your field, given the amount of defense work you do, or is it just overly specialized?

Frommelt: It's not, and it's something that certainly … and we're already seeing great success at the university level with the partnerships that we have and kind of fostering that love of STEM. But that certainly translates to the high school level. You have kids in high school that are learning what they like and learning what they want to do, and those that show an aptitude in STEM fields, you really need to foster that. You really need to think of it like a seed germinating, and you really need to help that grow. And it's self-serving for Integer, of course, because we want those great students to work at Integer and with the company, but it's well beyond that. We ... at Integer feel very strongly about the mission that we support for the country. And so we think of it as a national security issue. We think of it as these great South Carolina kids that are interested in cybersecurity or robotics or just fundamental coding. If they choose to get into the national security field, whatever company they choose to work with, that's better for the country.

So we think of it as a really important step for these young kids that are really interested in these fields to really give them the tools they need to continue on that path.

Q. The Regional Workforce Advisers, the RWAs, are so important, but they don't necessarily get a lot of publicity in the work they do to facilitate the work-based learning, internships, and apprenticeships that I mentioned earlier. Why those are important and how can businesses better engage with the RWAs?

Jones: I would say reach out, reach out often. Don't wait until your company's expanding, until you have new roles, until you have upcoming projects. We're connectors, and we can help connect you to schools, training programs, talent pipelines. We have a state view, too. Educators are dying to implement more career development opportunities in their classroom. We are here to make that connection, to help facilitate that connection. We also participate in things like the Comprehensive Local Needs Assessment. So that's where our CTE centers every two years apply for Perkins funds. So we send surveys out to our industries, to our students, to our parents, to our educators, and get feedback. We want to know what holes, what gaps there are, and how we can work together to fill those. And participation is the key thing. We actually did the first industry showcase here in the Pee Dee region. We had over 2,000 students. Our business and industry community was thrilled to participate. And now we are asking, when is the next one?

So that early exposure is key. That was for eighth-grade students. Darlington County is exposing students in fifth grade, where you can have the opportunity to come in and speak to students. They have Career Time Tuesday. They also have a program called Key to Career where they find internships. And it's not just internships and what we stereotypically think. They do internships at funeral homes. Financial institutions, they're looking for IT internships. They have over 100 students looking for internships. They take a six-week course and then jump into that internship. So I think just … finding opportunities, and we can help connect our business and industry to those opportunities. We can connect, we can coordinate, we can facilitate. You name it, we can do it.

Q. Mandy, your thoughts?

Elmore: Debbie led with it, early and often, right? But leveraging the relationship that the regional workforce advisers have with industry partners, with their community college, with other resources and employers, and doing that early. Paul has mentioned several times about the pipeline. We can't wait until eighth grade. All the data shows we lose the girls in sixth grade or earlier. And we want everyone, regardless of any biodemographic data, to have options for these lucrative, high-earning careers. So, and being honest and saying, what could we do? Throwing away any playbook and just seeing how we could creatively try some things. You don't have to do it again if it's a bust.

Q. Paul, do you have any other thoughts?

Frommelt: Yeah, Debbie hit it. We got to be proactive in communicating what we need, like what the industry needs, and like, down to like the granular level of, hey, we need Java or C++ or this new AI tool. And speaking of AI, it's changing so much that we need to continuously have that conversation, that open two-way dialogue of what we're looking for. And the second part is, RWAs, they're a bridge, but employers need to offer these paid internships and be open to all of that and getting kids in early, volunteering to give talks, as you mentioned, just being continuously present is important for employers. But it goes back to just, first of all, just letting them know what we need.

Q. Well, Paul, let me follow up. You mentioned AI. How is that increasing or affecting your staffing needs, and what skills are required for the new-collar jobs replacing traditional roles?

Frommelt: We're a company that's really focused on AI for what we're delivering, the tools that we're creating, the predictive aids, and the autonomy software that we're building, but also on the other hand, how that can help revolutionize our back-office support and how we run our company. Because we're so deep into it, we do have that firsthand knowledge that it doesn't replace people. AI is not here to eliminate the workforce, but it does shift the requirements, right? So when you said new-collar jobs, you know, we're focused on making sure they have digital literacy, they're able to troubleshoot, understand the new language of prompt engineering and all of that. So, the actual workforce is still required. It's just kind of shifting what they need to be great at to be successful. And it's changing, it continues to evolve week by week. But Integer is definitely focused on that. But I think the simple message is, it's not taking away headcount. It's just kind of changing how we're hiring, in what the person is required to do once we bring them in.

Q. Debbie, do you agree?

Jones: I think it offers opportunity for upskilling staff. It's not replacing them, it's teaching them new skills so they can move to something else. You know, quality control employees might go from inspecting parts to scanning them with an infrared camera and smartphone to detect structural imperfections. So many manufacturers need mechatronics personnel too, who work at the intersection of engineering and technology. And so our state technical colleges are launching programs to provide employers with qualified workers in this space as well.

Q. So Mandy, how is AI affecting your academic programs in your teaching?

Elmore: It's the Wild West, right? And we're invested in, like Paul said, leveraging it to support our work and efficiencies and getting those things right. But also that just saying thou shalt not use AI to students isn't an option. Because the most important skill that we're trying to transfer to students and individuals is learning how to learn. I do not know what the most intensive jobs will be in five or 10 years, because some of them don't exist right now. And so I have to equip people to be able to continue to learn, to upskill themselves, to seek opportunities, those kinds of things. The rate of change is getting faster and faster for all of us. And so, we've got to be able to continue to grow and develop, and so do the students, regardless of age, from 8 to 80, right? We've got to be able to grow or we're not going to be able to keep up. And Paul said it exactly. It is not replacing the workforce. It is shifting the workforce. We used to say robotics did things that were dirty, dull, and dangerous.

The reality is that's what we're using — AI, automation, and robotics, and everything else. Anything that's repetitive that we can outsource to automation, let's do that to free up people to do the work we do so well.

Q. And Mandy, while you've got the floor, let me ask you ... why is unemployment rising among young college grads? The Wall Street Journal reported new data from the New York Federal Reserve Bank showed unemployment among college grads 22 to 27 rose 5.6 percent in December, roughly what it was in February 2009 during the financial panic. Artificial intelligence isn't taking their jobs. But the journal said young grads' struggles started before AI went mainstream, and that between 1990 and 2014, unemployment for young college grads was generally 1 to 3 percentage points lower than for all workers. The gap started to tighten around 2014 and reversed in late 2018, and unemployment for young college grads is now 1.4 percentage points higher than for all workers. What's your take on that?

Elmore: While that may be true overall, it isn't true for two-year college graduates. Most of them within six months are placed in the workforce. Our job placement rate over the last several years at Tri-County has been consistently over 95 percent. When we look at the previous cohorts' job placement rate, and of the 5 percent that aren't placed, most of those we can't contact, we've lost their cell phone number or whatever. And so we just don't know. So they count against us. But again, these local colleges tied to their local workforce are continuously adapting to be sure we can put students in the jobs that are needed in our communities that contribute to our standard of living and ensure family-sustaining wages.

Q. Debbie, what does your data show, or, what are you hearing?

Jones: Well, actually, unemployment rates among this population have been increasing since 2022 at a much faster rate than the labor force overall because of the post-pandemic job market. (Since 2022), employers are still hiring, but at a much slower rate comparatively, which is healthy because there's no urgent need to increase production at an exponential amount like there was coming out of the pandemic.

Q. Paul, do you have thoughts about young college grads?

Frommelt: I can speak to my slice of the workforce and what we focus on. But it may be a part of kind of a mismatch of the general degrees that college is offering, and kind of the highly specialized skills that companies are looking for. Because we're certainly continuing to hire in these STEM fields like cybersecurity, AI, advanced engineering. Those remain in high demand. So it might be just a bit of a mismatch at this point in time, although I think as Debbie and Mandy said, the data is improving where the kids that graduate have the skills and tools that are currently in demand for the workforce. And I think that things are getting better, but again, it's the universities preparing kids for the realities of the workforce in 2026.

Q. Thank you. Let's close by having each one of you talk about South Carolina compared to North Carolina or Georgia. And we touched on this earlier, but I want you to bring it home for me. How is South Carolina doing compared to its neighboring states? What troubles you about that comparison? What do you find optimistic about that comparison, and how would you say South Carolina is doing overall? And Paul, we'll start with you.

Frommelt: Speaking from my area, we're really happy with what we're seeing in South Carolina, particularly when we mentioned the partnership that we have with USC and how that is growing and how our company is growing within the state. We're finding the right people to work for us. We're seeing more and more people stay in the state and want to work for companies like us. And the health of the industry, the defense industry, it's a really good sign when companies like Integer want to grow in the state when other companies come because the jobs are there … the workforce is there, and the workforce stays because the jobs are there. It's cyclical, chicken or the egg. So, we're super excited about what we're seeing. Obviously, we're continuing to expand in South Carolina, which is great. And we (are) still, like I said when I started, proud to call South Carolina our headquarters.

Q. Mandy, you touched on the technical college system, but when you look a little bit outside of the system, do you see promising developments? Do you still have some concerns?

Mandy Elmore: I'd be crazy not to have some concerns. But there's a place for all of us, right? ... Yes, we have concerns, but they are about how we increase participation versus ourselves. We compare very favorably with North Carolina and Georgia. And, for instance, Tri-County, we distinctly border both of those regions, our service area does. But what we see is that companies from North Carolina and Georgia want to come in and seek our graduates because they are well prepared and qualified. So what we have to do as a state is stay invested in things like the Coordinating Council for Workforce Development. The higher education institutions, whether they're technical colleges or four-years, public or private, working together to meet our workforce needs and to support people in family-sustaining careers. Not just jobs, but careers.

Q. Debbie, we've seen the studies that the governor's office has put out and others that talk about the tremendous job growth growth that South Carolina has experienced in recent years, but it's not a perfect picture. What do you see as key areas needed for improvement, and what is DEW doing to help along those lines?

Jones: Well, I think my position as a regional workforce adviser is key and integral because I go out and talk with those businesses and industries and find out where the gaps are, what they need support with, and then relay that information back to our K-12 and higher ed. It takes all of us working together. That's kind of why this position is so integral. The overall goal is to create a globally competitive workforce within South Carolina. So, that takes all of our partners working together. That takes our K-12 system, our higher ed system, our economic development offices all working together, and all working to address those barriers you talked about earlier, the transportation, the child care. A lot of it depends on those barriers, especially in our rural areas. But our rural areas are also seeing economic growth as well. So, I think it's having things in place like our S.C. Work Centers where all of the organizations come together and it's kind of a one-stop shop for employees looking for work, and that kind of thing. And then our Coordinating Council addressing workforce and trying to get business and industry to provide more opportunities for our students.

Our students need that exposure. They need to learn those soft skills while they're doing an internship and things like that. They need to learn how to get to work on time, you know, before it really matters and they're in a full-time job. They need to learn how to communicate. They need to learn how to listen. Those soft skills are integral, and that's where they learn them is their first job. You know lieutenant governor's YES program, where we have companies that offer part-time jobs for our students? Having that first job in high school is imperative. That's where we learn so much, during that first job. And so the goal is to help our students get that first job, that next job, and that best job. We all want that best job. We all want to set them up for success.

Q. And you mentioned gaps. Is there one gap that worries you more than the others?

Jones: No, I think just the soft skills is what I'm really hearing from employers. On our comprehensive local needs assessment, that was one of the things that employers said, that students just aren't coming in with the soft skills, with empathy. They're not coming in with empathy sometimes. They're not coming in being able to build relationships. Those things are critical. And exposure to opportunities helps that.

Q. I want to thank each of you for participating this morning. It's been a very, very good discussion. I'd like to thank Mandy and Tri-County Tech for sponsoring. I'm grateful for your time, and thank you for your participation.